Do You Need an Automotive Education?

More
6 years 5 months ago #65433 by cb7ftw
Replied by cb7ftw on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
I used to be impressed by peope with ASE certs. But no longer. They try and learn every car, and end up making the bad calls. I have been focusing on just a few kinds of cars and been learning tons over time. ASE people seem to be the ones that don't pick up a torque wrench, and put the wrong fluids in the cars.

Last ASE encounter, I was asking if they thought my valve clearance seemed like they needed adjusting. They asked if I was adjusting them when the engine was hot. They thought that is when it sould be done. On my car, you have to have the engine "stone cold" to adjust them.

Seems like if you get the manufactures shop manual and read it. Your ahead of many cert people.

As far as employment:
From an employer's perspective:
They want the most work, for the least amount of pay.
From an employee's perspective:
They want the least work, for the most amount of pay.

There is a natural business conflict in employer vs employee.

Either hot or cold, and no one likes lukewarm.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 5 months ago #65439 by robinsonsauto
Replied by robinsonsauto on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
Agree education is a must, I hope my previous post wasn't misleading, my thoughts; you have options, I myself achieved my ASE masters (home schooled) however I started at a young age working at a shop after school, (that was my night school) even though I did not attend an educational institution I demonstrated my knowledge by passing exams and mostly through the work I performed, did this give me a disadvantage maybe I just pushed through it, and this will be expected from the highest in the class as well, if you can’t perform in the real world that paper holds very little value, fair warning; just out of school with little experience most times starts out at the bottom little pay, hired in some cases for that reason, not saying this is always the case just talking from past experience working with others in the field seeing this first hand, with Hopes the education will advance you faster as you gain experience.

On a side note, I work as an industrial mechanic by day, in this field electrical troubleshooting skills are a must, understanding and following logic, following schematics with very complex control circuits mostly all automated with precise movements, no room for error in most cases
I achieved this position by demonstrating my previous skills as an automotive tech, and got my foot in the door with no prior industrial education, started low went up quick, after a short time I approached my boss about attending some classes, they sent me to school for, basic electric, industrial electric, controls and many others over the years I now have a total of 11certs in the industrial field as well. The message I am trying to get out is, if you show enough heart, passion and wiliness you will achieve whatever you put your heart to,

My summery, educating along with experience is key. How you achieve it is another topic.

Again Eric great points, wish you guys all the best

Fellow tech, Will
robinsonsauto channel banana: Had to throw banana guy in the mix we will all encounter this guy in the shop someday lol

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wysetech
  • wysetech's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 6th Gear
  • 6th Gear
  • Certified Technician Staying Dirty After 47 Years.
More
6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #65446 by wysetech
Replied by wysetech on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
I recently posted this in another section and since i put a lot of thought into it i decided to post it here also.

"Quoat" From another user...I keep hearing from people that " Trade Work " was something that people who were not academically inclined went into.

"Reply" Fifty years ago trades were considered "Bull Work" and you didn't need an education to do that. That i'm sure where the term "Grease Monkey" came from.

When i started out i only had a high school education. When you applied for a job employers seldom asked about education. They just asked if you could read and wright english. If you didn't look like a "NERD" and were not wearing rags for clothes and were enthusiastic about working they would give you a chance. Also, if you didn't have an education you were less costly to employ.

A great portion of people who were not educated came from parents who were not educated either but had good work ethics as they had kept their mouths shut and worked their butts off to servive and to raise a Family.

Today...unfortunately, it's hard to get hired for "Trade Work" without an education. Using a Damn shovel requires an education so you don't damage technology by putting the shovel in the wrong place.

Maybe if i was educated i wouldn't have messed up the quote in this post LoL


If i had a better education i'm sure my job would be more secure today. Recently my position at the shop i work in has been reduced from a flate rate tech to a light duty (NOTHING) job with a $12.00 an hour pay cut. When i go into work i feel useless and humiliated. With only a high school education they don't even want me as a service writer. At 63 years old i could find another job, maybe in another profession, with a better education.

I kick myself in the ass everyday now because of my stupidity when i was younger.

I'm a mechanic because a badass miracle worker is not an official job title.
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by wysetech.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • EricTheCarGuy
  • EricTheCarGuy's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
More
6 years 5 months ago #65480 by EricTheCarGuy
Replied by EricTheCarGuy on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?

robinsonsauto wrote: Agree education is a must, I hope my previous post wasn't misleading, my thoughts; you have options, I myself achieved my ASE masters (home schooled) however I started at a young age working at a shop after school, (that was my night school) even though I did not attend an educational institution I demonstrated my knowledge by passing exams and mostly through the work I performed, did this give me a disadvantage maybe I just pushed through it, and this will be expected from the highest in the class as well, if you can’t perform in the real world that paper holds very little value, fair warning; just out of school with little experience most times starts out at the bottom little pay, hired in some cases for that reason, not saying this is always the case just talking from past experience working with others in the field seeing this first hand, with Hopes the education will advance you faster as you gain experience.

On a side note, I work as an industrial mechanic by day, in this field electrical troubleshooting skills are a must, understanding and following logic, following schematics with very complex control circuits mostly all automated with precise movements, no room for error in most cases
I achieved this position by demonstrating my previous skills as an automotive tech, and got my foot in the door with no prior industrial education, started low went up quick, after a short time I approached my boss about attending some classes, they sent me to school for, basic electric, industrial electric, controls and many others over the years I now have a total of 11certs in the industrial field as well. The message I am trying to get out is, if you show enough heart, passion and wiliness you will achieve whatever you put your heart to,

My summery, educating along with experience is key. How you achieve it is another topic.

Again Eric great points, wish you guys all the best

Fellow tech, Will
robinsonsauto channel banana: Had to throw banana guy in the mix we will all encounter this guy in the shop someday lol


Some good points you made here. Especially about transferring what you've learned in automotive to other fields. Diagnostics is a logical process. Learn how to work that way, and there is little you can't solve.

Thanks again for your contributions.

Stay dirty

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 5 months ago #65538 by 10nico
Replied by 10nico on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
I had totally missed this wonderful topic up to now, and I've just watched both videos in a straight line.

Well, I'd like to bring my example to back up my personal opinion.

When I was a boy I dreamed to become a mechanic, I have always loved taking apart things and sometimes :lol: manage to put them back together.

When time came to choose (14 years old here in Italy) I really wanted to go to a technical school where I would have learned mechanical and technical things, however my parents decided against that.

So I went to school but kept on taking apart things, my bicyles and motorbikes, but also cameras, computers , radios, vacuum cleaners, whatever :lol: :lol:

When time came to find employment I was more skilled with computers so I chose these as my target, however I soon found out that I needed "the piece of paper" , since my education didn't prove I was computer-worthy.

So I took a 1 year technical computer course , I had to go to a bigger city 80kms from here to attend the lessons, and I didn't really believe I could learn something from it, but I needed the piece of paper, so I went on.
Yeah, my point of view right at that point was that I didn't need an education, since all I knew I had learned "the hard way" all by myself "in the field".

And guess what?

I discovered I HAD LOTS to learn from "theory", I met other people that were already in the IT field and my point of view changed.

And that "piece of paper" did add A LOT to my knowledge by simply teaching one simple thing to me, and that is that you never never never stop learning, and every source contains some good, and one should never close his mind against some ways of learning.

Sometimes theory teaches you not how to do things , but how many things there are out there that can be done and gives you an appetite on the many possibilities on how to actually DO those things.

So my thought on this topic is that if you're good with your hands and tools and think that you can learn everything and take apart anything, you're really only looking to the light from the keyhole, but if you take some education you actually crack the door open and see "how deep the white rabbit hole really is" :lol:

Hope this contribution enlightens some minds ;)

Live long and prosper (and stay dirty!)

10nico

Live long and prosper

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 5 months ago #65597 by Rick547
Replied by Rick547 on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
I'm not an automobile technician or a mechanic. After High School I served an apprenticeship with the IBEW to become a construction electrician. After receiving my Journeyman's Card and a Certificate of Completion from the Department of Labor, work got tight and I went to work for General Motors as a electrician. Most of it did not revolve around construction type activities but repair of production equipment and I became very good at my craft quickly. Not long after I was asked to become a Maintenance Supervisor and was very valuable to the organization in that capacity. Not having a college education held me back on promotions but I made a great living as a Maintenance Supervisor. I spent about 15 years as a Maintenance Supervisor before I was promoted to a General Supervisor while others with a college degree with less experience and qualifications were promoted ahead of me. I then was asked to be the first non college degree member of Labor Relations in the history of the organization responsible for 1,200 skilled tradesmen. Big feather in my hat as far as I was concerned. Although I did well for myself, those with college degrees were promoted faster and received a higher salary than I did. Not because they were more efficient at their respective jobs but because they held something I did not possess that the company felt was a great assest in a college degree. So their is a great value in an education with that also comes respect and rewards from those that run an origination. I did it my way but looking back I could have made a faster climb if I had just gotten a college degree.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wysetech
  • wysetech's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 6th Gear
  • 6th Gear
  • Certified Technician Staying Dirty After 47 Years.
More
6 years 5 months ago #65612 by wysetech
Replied by wysetech on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
Well done 10nico. I agree with all of that.

I'm a mechanic because a badass miracle worker is not an official job title.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #65617 by NickSin
Replied by NickSin on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
cool topic!
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by NickSin.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 5 months ago #65658 by rt54321
Replied by rt54321 on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?
This is just my $0.02 (I am not employed as an automotive tech), but here goes.

This idea was mentioned before - I am merely repackaging it here to bridge the gap between classroom instruction and OJT experience:

What if, the ASE tests had a large "lab practical" portion associated with them? This way, people that know how to take and pass a test, could NOT pass the ASE cert test based on book knowledge alone. They would have to show an instructor/proctor how they would fix a real-life problem (verify original problem - diagnose failure - replace component - verify fix).

This would also help technicians with lots of experience but no formal education - as long as they can show the proctor how to fix a real-world problem, they could score high marks for the lab practical. Now, understood that the written part would still be a test component, but it would not weigh as heavily. [Maybe ASE certification test grade could be 50% written, 50% lab practical?]

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Wrench Turner
  • Wrench Turner's Avatar
  • Offline
  • User is blocked
  • User is blocked
  • Turner of ye' old wrenches.
More
6 years 5 months ago #65664 by Wrench Turner
Replied by Wrench Turner on topic Do You Need an Automotive Education?

What if, the ASE tests had a large "lab practical" portion associated with them?

I like this idea... If you are interested in knowing if the person working on your vehicle has actually had lab experience, then you'd want someone who actually graduated from a reputable automotive program. This being the case, the individual may or may not be ASE certified, but will have hands-on real work experience.

"Do not catch yourself on fire."

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.248 seconds